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“Frosty Marvin”

Do The Facts Support The Legend?

Written by Kathleen Rose O’Day-Gaskill (Conesville, Ohio) for the Dairy Goat Journal, (Vol. 64 No. 8) appearing in their August, 1986 publication.

DGJ Editors Note: We thank the author for her fine work in putting together all the photos and information for this special Frosty Marvin section.  In addition, she also got together all of the Frosty Marvin section advertisements, wrote them and designed them.  Thanks for a good job, Katy Rose!)

Article Sections and Headings

There is no other name in all Nubiandom that evokes such a powerful, and often emotional response, as that of GCH ++*B Hallcienda Frosty Marvin.  Undoubtedly, Marvin is the “cornerstone of the breed”, through sheer numbers if for no other reason.  To date, Marvin has sired 400 offspring and 4,100 grandprogeny!

This writer met the handsome and charismatic Marvin in 1981.  Why do so many people love him, often to the point of obsession?  Why have they kept just as many sons as daughters (according to the American dairy Goat Assn. registration records)?  He could hardly be considered a fad -- although he has been dead for several years, his devotees grow in number every year.  His semen sells for a $100 per straw and more.  Pedigrees abound in which Marvin is present 10, 15 or more times, as though people cannot get enough of him to satisfy them.  Can a buck be addictive?

Did you know that Marvin even has a fan club?  It is true, and a quarterly newsletter comes with the membership, from which one can order a bumper sticker which reads, “I love Frosty Marvin!”  (Membership is $5.00 annually through Joan C. Coolidge, 632 Farasi Ln., Watsonville, CA 95076).  Sentiment and emotion aside, though, just what are the facts?  Few or no statistics were available when Marvin was alive but there are plenty now.  That is the purpose of this article -- to examine the statistics and other facts that cannot be currently measured in statistics and see how solid is the foundation of GCH ++*B Hallcienda Frosty Marvin.


CREME DE LA CREME

The bucks for this special list are ones that qualify both as Classification Superior Sire (10 or more daughters with an average final score of at least VG80, or nine with at least VG81, eight with VG82, seven with VG83, six with VG84, or five with VG85; bucks with less than five daughters classified were not considered) and as USDA Top 10% Production Sires.  There are 16 Nubian bucks who qualify for both lists, of which the bucks below represent half:

GCH ++*B Hallcienda Frosty Marvin

+*B Warpaint Acres Super Buck (a Marvin son)

+*B Pepperwood Farm Frosty Joshua (a double Marvin son)

+*B Pepperwood Farm Frosty Buford (a double Marvin son)

+*B Pepperwood Farm Frosty Bobby (a double Marvin son)

+*B Town & Country Jack Frost (a Marvin grandson)

+*B Hallcienda Loren (close relative)

GCH +*B Tam-A-Rock Genuine Alchemist (close relative)

Page #2

THE USDA TOP 10 % DOE SUMMARY

Space does not permit the listing of Frosty Marvin granddaughters who appear on the Doe Summary, there being approximately 200 of them; therefore, only daughters are listed.

 

%

Apple-Knotch Frosty Mary Sara

96

Circus Circus Frosty Natasha

91

Cook’s Pancho Half Pint

94

Devi’s Bear River Mirage

97

Fox’s Pride Frosty Gypsy

98

Fra Jac’s C/F Maria

97

Hi-Winds Shoo-Fiy’s Secret

99

Howard’s Sandra

95

Hurricane Acres Marvin Gamay

97

Indian Spirit Marvin’s Acacia

93

Maranatha Oaks Frosty Rachael

96

Monami Miss Frosty Rose

98

Monami Miss Frosty Thyme

97

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Hannah

97

Poppy Farm’s Frosty Amitra

99

Redwood Hills Frosty Talia

98

Stoney Ridge Frosty Mira

93

Sunburst Kiku

99

Sunburst Nova

98

Sunburst Oriana

98

Sunburst Tenebrae

91

Town & Country Frosty Maiden

95

Town & Country Frosty Snickers

96

Town & Country Frosty Taffy

90

Wee 3 R Marvin’s Red Song

95

(Unidentified) DOB: 6/08/78

94

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Pearl

95

DAVIS ELITE DAUGHTERS: (1982)

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Shannon

Pancho Nuevo “Jody”

Cook’s Pancho Pepper

Cook’s Pancho Half Pint

Hurricane Acres Marvin Gamay

Caravelle’s Frosted Rose

Hi-Winds Shoo-FIy’s Secret

CLASSIFICATION

Most highly classified Frosty Marvin daughters:

1

GCH Pancho Nuevo “Jody” 2*M

5-09

92

(92 90 92 92)

2

GCH Cook’s Pancho Pepper 5*M

3-08

91

(89 89 96 90)

3

GCH Cook’s Pancho Half Pint 5*M

5-03

90

(88 92 94 90)

 

Maranatha Oaks Frosty Rachael 3*M

4-00

90

(90 88 91 90)

5

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Buttons 4*M

3-05

89

(88 86 92 90)

6

Lil Chenilla’s Chamois *M

2-00

88

(89 88 88 88)

7

Caravelle’s Frosted Maeberry

2-06

87

(80 90 90 90)

 

Hi-Winds Shoo-Fly’s Secret

3-02

87

(84 90 89 87)

 

Wee 3 R January’s Frosted Song

1-03

87

(85 90 88 85)

10

Caraville’s Frosted Rose

3-07

86

(86 87 91 82)

 

Mielke’s Lilinau 3*M

2-04

86

(86 90 90 81)

 

Wee 3 R Frosty’s Song

2-06

86

(85 90 88 84)

Most highly classified Frosty Marvin sons:

1

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Marshal

3-06

89

(88 88 91)

2

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Future

3-08

88

(85 90 90)

 

Sunburst Radix

2-00

88

(87 90 88)

5

Devi’s Bear River Jubilation

1-05

87

(86 87 88)

 

Fra Jac’s C/P Marmaduke    

3-01

87

(90 84 84)

 

Hi-Winds Deliverance

3-02

87

(84 90 88)

8

Amberwood Frosty Shamus

2-08

86

(84 88 86)

 

Howard’s Bromsage Frosty Stroh

1-02

86

(84 88 88)

 

Pepperwood Farm Frosty King

5-05

86

(85 84 90)

Frosty Marvin classified 8-07 EX9O (89 90 91) (Code 1: stature, head, front end, back; all else Code 2).  As of the last classification summary (Cl. 31), Marvin has had 43 daughters classified with an average score of VG81 (79 83 84 79).  However, four additional daughters were classified (as well as some other being reclassified) in 1985, and his average is now 47 daughters, VG81 (80 83 84 80).

In looking at a break down of classification codes of Marvin’s offspring, it can be seen that Marvin is strongest as a sire in front ends, stature and fore udders.  Areas of caution would be front legs, rumps and feet.

For a more accurate assessment of Marvin’s potential it is necessary to look at his offspring by age group, when it readily becomes apparent what a slow maturing line his is.  As one would expect, the Dairy Character score remains the same no matter what the age of the doe.  However, there are some rather dramatic changes in other areas.  The average final score increases by five points by the time daughters are three or older, as do the General Appearance and Mammary scores.  Body Capacity increases by eight points.  There are some tremendous changes in front ends, rumps, fore udders, rear udders and teats, and notable improvements in udder support and in backs.  Areas in which one would expect no significant   changes possible are relatively stable, such as little or no change in stature, heads, front legs (except for a few originally Code 3 in front legs later being classified Code 2 or even Code 1), hind legs, feet and udder quality.  (More detailed information, including a chart, appears in my article written re: Marvin progeny classification scores, which appeared in the first issue of the Frosty Marvin Newsletter.)  A pattern of consistent improvement is indicated from youth to maturity, no matter who the classifier, what the year, or whether or not the animal had ever been classified before.  As a basis of comparison: Yearling daughters — 18, G+79 (78 83 81 78); Age 2-00 to 2-11 — 16, VG82 (81 84 83 81); Age 3-00 and older — 20, VG84 (83 84 89 83).

Page #3

THE USDA SIRE SUMMARY MILK PRODUCTION

Frosty Marvin has 37 sons and 29 grandsons (this latter figure not including “double Sons,” where Marvin is both the grand sire and the sire) evaluated in the USDA Sire SummaryAll but three of his sons appear in the Top 10%.  Of those three, only one has a minus PD.  Of his grandsons, 19 are in the Top 10%, and only two have a minus PD (those two are sons of the sole Marvin son to have a minus PD).  One asterisk beside the name indicates a grandson, two asterisks indicate a “double son.”  In the Top 3% of the summary only eight other bucks who are not Marvin, his Sons or his grandsons appear (out of a total of 40 bucks), with the first of the eight appearing in 10th place (the other seven appearing in 15th, 20th, 21st, 26th, 27th, 29th and 33rd positions), although some of these bucks are also from the Hallcienda bloodline.

 

%

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Jonas **

99

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Max **

99

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Future

99

Warpaint Acres Super Buck

99

Hallcienda Frosty Marvin

99

Caravelie’s Jack Frost **

99

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Fred **

99

Monami Mister Marvelous **

99

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Marvel **

99

Tam-A-Rocks Prince Ideal *

99

Cooks Rancho Mel’s Little Nick

99

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Bobby **

99

Ker-A-Tin Acres Frosty Rocket

98

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Jacob

98

Springwood Frosty Marvel

98

Pepperwood Farm Dudley Do-Right **

98

Pepperwood Farm Frosty King

98

Springwood Frosty Supervisor

98

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Buford **

98

Butterfield Acres Sinbad *

98

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Senator **

98

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Shawn

97

Circus Circus Frosty Marvin II

97

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Freddie **

97

Ker-A-Tin Acres Royal Magic *

97

Hi-Winds Deliverance

97

Amberwood’s Frosty Chancellor **

97

Circus Circus Frosty Joshua

97

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Joshua **

97

Cook’s Rancho Nick’s Macho Man *

97

Pepperwood Farm Merit’s Shane *

97

Town & Country Future Legend *

97

Amberwood Pepper’s Foxxfire *

96

Hobbit Hills Goldbuck *

96

Neptune’s Royal Frosty

96

Town & Country Jack Frost *

96

Tam-A-Rock’s Nicodemus *

96

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Pepper **

95

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Solomon

95

Circus Circus Cinnamon Boy *

94

Brownwood’s Music Maker

94

Pepperwood Farm Frosty Majesty

94

Monami Super Star *

93

Caprine Meadows El Cid

93

Cook’s Rancho Little Napoleon *

93

Tam-A-Rock’s Fox Master *

92

Indian Spirit Marvin’s Madrone

92

Caravelle’s Exacta

92

Pepperwood Farm Andee’s Tyee *

92

Monami Super Reagency *

91

Tam-A-Rock’s Ivan

91

Monami Super Nelder *

90

Pepperwood Farm Black Flash *

90

GRAND CHAMPION GRANDPROGENY

GCH +B Timber Lane’s Jumping Jack

GCH Monami Super Nasturtium 3*M

GCH Tam-A-Rock Gentle Jane 4* M

GCH Monami Super Mandy 4*M

GCH ++*B Tattoo Flats Medicine Man

GCH Monami Super Sasavory 3*M

CH Little Dickens Caraway

GCH New Era’s Super Delight *M

CH Patteran Frosty’s Flakes

CH Tamahnous Rose

GCH +*B Butterfield Acres Sinbad

CH Burnt Oaks S Be My Valentine

CH Pepperwood Farm Shenandoah

CH H. Homestead Super A.Maze-Zing

GCH Velvet Acres Maiya 4*M

GCH H. Homestead Super Free Style *M

GCH Fauleen’s Angie

GCH Eleven Oaks Nalina 7*M

CH Joyal’s Jolly Jerry

GCH Hibb-Herd Frolic’s Precious 2*M

CH Circus Circus Star Buck

CH Maranatha Oaks Sybil

CH Circus Circus Benji

GCH Saratoga Acres Minnie 4*M

CH *6 Cook’s Rancho Chinook Warrior

CH Sunburst Zephyr

GCH Taj Mahal Julida Belle 3*M

CH Waterfall Glen’s Boomer

GCH Pine Land’s Frosty Tessa 3*M

CH Town & Country Cracker Jack

GCH Pine Land’s Frosty Janna 3*M

GCH Wee 3 R Frosty Hot Shot 3*M

GCH Looking Glass Diana 3*M

GCH Rada’s Late June Parfait *M

GCH Ker-A-Tin Acres Royal Blossum 3*M

CH Lawndale Acres Romulus

GCH Seven Arrows Super Mahogany 3*M

GCH Redwood Hills Jupiter Holly *M

GCH Monami Super Mist 3*M

GCH Briarwood Farm Frosty Robin

FROSTY MARVIN: THE WRAP-UP

Statistics speak for themselves, so no further comment is needed on conformation or production (although it should be mentioned that butterfat is not an area Marvin will improve — virtually all of his sons and grandsons have a minus PD for butterfat percentage).  But there are a couple of other facts that statistics cannot measure which I would like to address.

The first is temperament.  Dairy temperament goes a very long way, and no one who has met Marvin or his progeny has ever met their equal.  Their gentle, loving temperaments are unsurpassed, which is especially notable in the bucks.  Bucks can be handled with little more than a finger crooked through their    collars, even at the height of breeding season.  No one need fear for their safety or of being the target of rude acts — the smallest of does can be bred to the largest of bucks with no fear of harm or trauma.         

The second is inbreeding.  Many folks are inbreeding intensively on Frosty Marvin.  However, we should all be aware of a hereditary problem in this line.  It is the tendency to scour, especially in young stock.  If one has a lot of nice, bright green hay and/or adequate browse for his/her stock, one may have the problem but be completely unaware of it.  It appears to be a hereditary vitamin A metabolism deficiency, wherein the animal may have difficulty absorbing and maintaining high levels of vitamin A (hence the connection with bright green hay and/or browse, both of which are high in vitamin A).  The “quickfix” is, of course, to supplement (perhaps even a triple dose) with vitamin A, half in the morning, half at night.  It is a tricky       trait to try to breed out since it is observed only under the foregoing circumstances (which none of us provide for our goats by design).

I am not going to ponder the question at the moment.  I am deliriously happy that the “Frosty Marvin Special” is at last complete, and I am going to cover this typewriter and go scratch the nose of my own double Marvin son and discuss nothing more significant than when Morning Glory might decide to kid and when might Sun Flower decide to come into heat...

Kathleen Rose O’Day-Gaskill

 Go to: Photos That Appeared In This 1986 Frosty Marvin Article

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